Self-deprecation is worth its weight in smoldering phoenix-ashes and baby unicorn tears.
or; so I feel.
Published on June 21, 2007 By SanChonino In US Domestic
Once again, President Bush has vetoed a bill regarding funding for stem cell research, calling the research "unethical".

I've gotten into this before on this site, and I still don't understand President Bush's position. These stem cells are going to be flushed down the toilet. Put them to good use.

I already know the reaction I'm going to get from the majority of the people on this site - "why should federal funding go to any research, regardless of how it's funded?"

My answer? Because I said so, dammit.

President Bush, you're tacky and I hate you. (Name the movie reference.)


Where Are The Dogs Humping.com

Comments (Page 3)
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on Jun 22, 2007
When you can show me (instead of just asking me to take your word for it) that a majority of Americans support TAXPAYER FUNDED EMBRYONIC stem cell research, I'll just assume you are once again talking out your ass, parrotting the drek you've read elsewhere without giving it a moment of critical thought yourself.



Here is one link. I never said that the polls supported taxpayer funded embyronic stem cell research. So if I don't link a poll, I'm just making it up. All it takes is a quick google search to verify. I read, I remember what I read, I write. I don't always look it up immediately prior to responding to an article. If I am going to be called out on every statement that I make, I will start linking for every statement that I make. I don't notice the other bloggers here doing that or being asked to do that.

This one shows that 22% of American want their to be no limits on embryonic stem cell research and anothe 38% think they should ease current restrictions. I have seen other numbers that varied from 55% - 71% in favor of embryonic stem cell research (all a majority) but this was the most recently dated. I never said vast majority because it's not a vast majority but it is a majority.



http://www.christianpost.com/article/20070616/28011_Poll:_American,_Republican_Support_for_Embryonic_Stem_Cell_Research_Increasing.htm
on Jun 22, 2007

Here is one link. I never said that the polls supported taxpayer funded embyronic stem cell research. So if I don't link a poll, I'm just making it up. All it takes is a quick google search to verify. I read, I remember what I read, I write. I don't always look it up immediately prior to responding to an article. If I am going to be called out on every statement that I make, I will start linking for every statement that I make. I don't notice the other bloggers here doing that or being asked to do that.


You are correct in your assumptions. However the reality is that MOST Americans that feel that way don't know these facts and do not bother to look it up:


I would like for you to do me a favor. Name just ONE advance in medicine that embryonic stem cell research has produced. Now I can give you the answer in one word, "NONE"! On the the other hand adult stem cell research has produced about 75 such advances.


Or else they don't want to know.
The "only" reason I'm aware of it is because, only in stem cell research will they find the answers needed to actually do something about the MS I have.
on Jun 22, 2007
Neither of those figures represent a majority.


BOTH figures support embryonic stem cell research. When you add the 22% that want no restrictions and the 38% who want lessened restrictions that equals 60%, a majority of Americans that support embryonic stem cell research. But if that isn't good enough for you, I will find more.

http://www.pollingreport.com/science.htm

Here is a breakdown of the poll results from 2007 from the above linked website.

CNN/Opinion Research Poll - May 4-6, 2007

53% Federal government SHOULD fund research that would use newly created stem cells obtained from human embryos.

USA Today/Gallup Poll - April 13-15, 2007

64% Bush SHOULD NOT veto bill expanding federal funding for embryonic stem cell research.

This poll also contained the numbers I referenced earlier 38% want lessened restrictions and 22% want no restrictions on embryonic stem cell research.

ABC News/Washington Post Poll January 16-19, 2007

61% SUPPORT Embryonic Stem Cell Research

55% SUPPORT loosening restrictions on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research

Okay here's more - this is long - look on page 9, there's a pie chart

http://www.dnapolicy.org/images/reportpdfs/2005ValuesInConflict.pdf

This one says 58%.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/10-24-2005/0004193241&EDATE

This one says 60%.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/poll010803.html

As you can see, I am not making numbers up. I was correct when I stated that the majority of Americans support embryonic stem cell research.
on Jun 22, 2007
Oh and I did find this interesting. In a survey of one thousand infertility patients with frozen embryos, 60% report that they are likely to donate their embryos to stem cell research. This could result in 2000 to 3000 new embryonic stem cell lines for research.

http://www.pollingreport.com/science.htm
on Jun 22, 2007
There is so much potential that they might find cures for Juvenile Diabetes, Alzheimers and Parkinson's.


and maybe it will turn lead into gold.....
on Jun 22, 2007
There is nothing to suggest that taxpayer money should be spent on this research. What exactly do the taxpayers who fund this research gain from it? The same people who fund medical research in this country currently pay the highest prices for the drugs that result from the research they paid for.

I just recently paid well over $100 for a month's supply of a drug that can be purchased in any other country in the world for a third of that price. My tax dollars paid for the development of that drug.

No, tax money should not be spent on research for drugs that we have to pay a premium on. And tax dollars should certainly not be spent on research that involves the cloning of human embryos just to destroy them. That is just sick and evil no matter how you care to color it. There isn't a single procedure involving human embryos that can't be conducted using umbilical cord cells or adult stems cells, neither of which involves the murder of a human being. The whole idea of killing embryos for research is just sick and anyone who advocates it is evil and sick.
on Jun 22, 2007
Oh and I did find this interesting. In a survey of one thousand infertility patients with frozen embryos, 60% report that they are likely to donate their embryos to stem cell research. This could result in 2000 to 3000 new embryonic stem cell lines for research.


and um, where exactly in there did it say that they want to spend our tax dollars to pay for the research? Donating unwanted items is not the same as forking over hard earned cash.
on Jun 22, 2007

Oh and I did find this interesting. In a survey of one thousand infertility patients with frozen embryos, 60% report that they are likely to donate their embryos to stem cell research. This could result in 2000 to 3000 new embryonic stem cell lines for research.


and um, where exactly in there did it say that they want to spend our tax dollars to pay for the research? Donating unwanted items is not the same as forking over hard earned cash.


I'm sure you've seen the quote "lies, damn lies, and statistics".
on Jun 22, 2007
and maybe it will turn lead into gold.....


Wouldn't it be wonderful if this turned out to be a cure for these diseases or at least lead to medicine to lessen the symptoms of them? I guess I'm just an optimist. I think the potential is amazing and so much more important than our other breakthroughs such as boner medication and regrowing hair.

http://www.camradvocacy.org/resources/Embryonic_Stem_Cell_Research_Progress.htm

Some of the progress that has already been made.

hESC (Human Embryonic Stem Cells)have turned motor neurons (nerves which carry messages between the brain and body)offering possibilities for repairing damage caused by ALS, spinal cord injury and other nerve disorders.

*I find this especially exciting because my son has damaged nerves in his shoulder and limited use of his right arm from a birth injury. At the time, they said there is no way to repair nerve damage but now there is hope.* I don't understand how people can't find this incredibly exciting.

hESC allow Alzheimers researchers to study the disease in human tissue cells instead of in people. This will lead to better Alzheimers medications.

Researchers grew heart cells in a petri dish and implanted them into the damaged hearts of pigs. 11 out of 13 hearts regained normal heart rates.

Scientists used hESC to grow retinal cells which could someday return vision to those suffering from retinal disease.

They developed proteins that could mark cancer stem cells from which they hope to develop medication that could slow or turn off tumor formation.

They have developed a stem cell line of Cystic Fibrosis that can now be studied.

They have used hESC to grow inner ear hair cells that do not naturally regrow. This could develop a treatment for deafness.

They made insulin producing cells from mouse ebryonic cells. When transplanted into diabetic mice, they reduced blood sugar flucuation and increased lifespan.

They used embryonic stem cells to grow liver, cartiledge, nerve tissue and blood vessels. All of which appeared to function normally when transplanted into mice.

The used hESC to reverse hemophilia in mice.

Mice were bred without a gene needed for immunity. Cloned cells partially restored the immune system which gives hope for AIDS treatment.

They transplanted hESC into the brains of rats that did not have dopamine producing nerve cells (dopamine regulates movement, loss of dopamine associated with Parkinsons). Implanted cells became dopamine producing cells and improved animals motion relative to controls.

Used hESC to retore myelin insulation around damaged nerves, returning motion to partially paralyzed rats.
on Jun 23, 2007
and um, where exactly in there did it say that they want to spend our tax dollars to pay for the research? Donating unwanted items is not the same as forking over hard earned cash.


CNN/Opinion Research Poll - May 4-6, 2007

53% Federal government SHOULD fund research that would use newly created stem cells obtained from human embryos.


on Jun 23, 2007
There isn't a single procedure involving human embryos that can't be conducted using umbilical cord cells or adult stems cells, neither of which involves the murder of a human being.


Sorry, not true. Embryonic stem cells can become all cell types in the body. Adult stem cells are limited to differentiating into different cell types from their tissue of origin. They have also had problems retrieving adult stem cells from certain organs. Large numbers of Embryonic stem cells can be grown in culture. Adult stem cells are rare in mature tissue and methods for expanding their numbers in cell culture have not been worked out. Large numbers of cells are needed for cell replacement therapies.

http://stemcells.nih.gov/info/basics/basics5.asp

The whole idea of killing embryos for research is just sick and anyone who advocates it is evil and sick.


Embryonic stem cells are derived from seven-day old blastocysts (microscopic balls of 150 or so cells). I guess I am evil and sick as well as betwen 53-61% of our population and the 60% of infertility patients who said they would donate their frozen embryos for embryonic stem cell research. These are embryos that already exist and would be destroyed. Is it better for these existing embryos to be thrown in the trash than used in research?

on Jun 26, 2007
Sorry, not true. Embryonic stem cells can become all cell types in the body. Adult stem cells are limited to differentiating into different cell types from their tissue of origin. They have also had problems retrieving adult stem cells from certain organs. Large numbers of Embryonic stem cells can be grown in culture. Adult stem cells are rare in mature tissue and methods for expanding their numbers in cell culture have not been worked out. Large numbers of cells are needed for cell replacement therapies.

http://stemcells.nih.gov/info/basics/basics5.asp


So sorry but you are wrong. Adult stem cells and umbilical cord cells do MORE than embryonic stem cells. And BTW...I have noticed that you "still" have not answered my question:

I would like for you to do me a favor. Name just ONE advance in medicine that embryonic stem cell research has produced. Now I can give you the answer in one word, "NONE"! On the the other hand adult stem cell research has produced about 75 such advances.


Is that because you know I'm correct? This btw...is from your own linked site.


Have human embryonic stem cells been used successfully to treat any human diseases yet?
Scientists have only been able to do experiments with human embryonic stem cells (hESC) since 1998, when a group led by Dr. James Thomson at the University of Wisconsin developed a technique to isolate and grow the cells. Moreover, federal funds to support hESC research have only been available since August 9, 2001, when President Bush announced his decision on federal funding for hESC research. Because many academic researchers rely on federal funds to support their laboratories, they are just beginning to learn how to grow and use the cells. Thus, although hESC are thought to offer potential cures and therapies for many devastating diseases, research using them is still in its early stages.

Adult stem cells such as blood-forming stem cells in bone marrow (called hematopoietic stem cells, or HSCs) are currently the only type of stem cell commonly used to treat human diseases. Doctors have been transferring HSCs in bone marrow transplants for over 40 years. More advanced techniques of collecting, or "harvesting", HSCs are now used in order to treat leukemia, lymphoma and several inherited blood disorders.

The clinical potential of adult stem cells has also been demonstrated in the treatment of other human diseases that include diabetes and advanced kidney cancer. However, these newer uses have involved studies with a very limited number of patients.
on Jun 26, 2007
I've already told you Loca that you shouldn't debate this subject especially with me, unless your ducks are all in a row. This is a subject near and dear to my heart. As a sufferer of MS I keep very close tabs on this subject. And believe me when I say your ducks ain't in a row.
on Jun 26, 2007
Sorry, not true. Embryonic stem cells can become all cell types in the body. Adult stem cells are limited to differentiating into different cell types from their tissue of origin. They have also had problems retrieving adult stem cells from certain organs. Large numbers of Embryonic stem cells can be grown in culture. Adult stem cells are rare in mature tissue and methods for expanding their numbers in cell culture have not been worked out. Large numbers of cells are needed for cell replacement therapies.

http://stemcells.nih.gov/info/basics/basics5.asp


Also from your linked site:


What will be the best type of stem cell to use for therapy?
Pluripotent stem cells, while having great therapeutic potential, face formidable technical challenges. First, scientists must learn how to control their development into all the different types of cells in the body. Second, the cells now available for research are likely to be rejected by a patient's immune system. Another serious consideration is that the idea of using stem cells from human embryos or human fetal tissue troubles many people on ethical grounds.

Until recently, there was little evidence that multipotent adult stem cells could change course and provide the flexibility that researchers need in order to address all the medical diseases and disorders they would like to. New findings in animals, however, suggest that even after a stem cell has begun to specialize, it may be more flexible than previously thought.
on Jun 26, 2007
Please note that I'm not even touching on the "moral" issue of this. Because of what I have posted, the moral issue should not even be the question.
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