First of all, immigrants do not have a "right" to become Americans.

"exclaim that we must cast out all our illegal neighbors and unify (read: homogenize) our state"

That's right. What kind of example are we setting if we let people who BREAK THE LAW of the land, then become a citizen of the land? That makes no sense. Illegals are LAW BREAKERS, period.

You think because the immigration process is bogus, that is justification for breaking the law? You say they "can't come any other way" (that's legal). That's bull. You said you spoke to LEGAL immigrants. If its not possible then how did they get to be legal?


"I have a friend from South Africa. His whole family, except for his nineteen-year-old sister, is here in the states, but for some reason, the immigration offices deny her a visa every time she applies. Thus, she can't live with her family and enjoy the "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" that she shoud be allowed. This system needs a serious overhaul, but until then, I'm going to support illegal immigration."

Maybe she should apply all that energy to improving her OWN country. Maybe if people stopped leaving their countries and flocking to ours, they would be forced to do something to change their own country. It takes blood and sacrifice though, and why should they bother with that right? When they can just break a few American laws then come leech off us, INSTANT gratification.

I have no sympathy for illegal aliens. Sorry.

Having a better life sometimes means you have to FIGHT for it. Stay in YOUR country and do the work to change things. Don't mooch off a country who already bled for it.

For the most part I agree with Tova.  Breaking the law is not the way to go about making a point.  I will concede your point and agree with you that we do need to revamp the whole immigration process and make it easier.  However, we need to do that after fixing the Illegal problem.  If we can fix that, then I think there will be a lot more space for legal immigrants and easing the conditions would certainly be warranted.

Another thing.

This article reeks of "right of entitlement."

People from other countries have no right to American entitlements. They can ask, and we can refuse or grant based on our rule of law.

Get over it.

the problem is that nobody seems willing to do anything to change anything. I don't understand why we should deprive these people the rights that we have. The only reason the majority of us have the "American entitlements" we enjoy is because we were born in this country! It's not like most of us did anything to be given these rights, we just were conceived in the right uterus at the right time in the right place! Why should we deny others because they didn't have the benefits of an American uterus to give birth to them?
Tova: What have you done to secure these rights for anyone? What blood have you let to be given these rights?

The only reason the majority of us have the "American entitlements" we enjoy is because we were born in this country!

Sometimes it is an accident of Birth.  But a country must maintain its laws and borders, or else it is just a jungle with no reason to exist.  You could just as easily say why do we deprive the billion plus chinese of our rights.  And the answer is the same.  They were not born here.

"Sometimes it is an accident of birth." That's a good point, Dr. Guy, but it doesn't change the fact that we need to find a way to make those who are here legal and make the immigration situation easier to navigate and survive. I really don't expect anyone to truly understand the situation until they see it from the other point of view. Until you've spent time among illegal immigrants, seen their efforts to enter this country (for their children's sake), I really can't expect you to see it the way I do.

Until you've spent time among illegal immigrants, seen their efforts to enter this country (for their children's sake), I really can't expect you to see it the way I do.

What makes you think that I have not?

Until you've spent time among illegal immigrants, seen their efforts to enter this country (for their children's sake), I really can't expect you to see it the way I do.

The thing is, you are under the assumption that he hasn't spent time with them.

I have spent time with many illegal immigrants. We have 20 or 30 in our church every Sunday. I care about them, and sympathize with their situations in Mexico, but I still do NOT sympathize with them coming here illegally. I know why they did it, but I still don't agree with it, and I would support any law (even down to closing our borders completely) that would stop illegal immigration.

I have plenty of experience with illegal and legal immigrants. I lived in Mian for 8 years and met many cubans both legal and illegal. I feel very little sympathy for the illegals. Even though I feel bad for their situation, I can't stand the idea that while I, being an American citizen, have to stuggle to make a living, they get all kinds of money from the Gov't and eventually end up getting houses, good cars and good jobs. I know cause I saw it happen over and over and over.

I say if you are here illegal you are a criminal and we can't ignore our own laws because of our feelings. I'm sorry but that's just how I see it. I was born here in the states of Puertorican family, Puertoricans are the only latin people who are considered American citizens whether you were born in the US or Puerto Rico and they don't even appreciate what they have. Those born in Puerto Rico (sorry mom) should have their citizenship removed because they don't deserve it. Bunch of ingrates, they get all kinds of money from the US and all they know how to do is complain about the US and criticize Americans, even me.

If we are going to cut back illegal immigration, we need to start hitting the businesses that hire illegals with huge fines. If they could not find work here, they would not keep coming. The businesses are addicted to the cheap labor they can get from illegals. Obviously the penalties aren't severe enough or they wouldn't continue to hire illegal workers. It is much easier to target businesses that have something to lose and are established here than to track down millions of illegal immigrants.

That being said I don't believe in breaking the law but I wonder how many of the citizens who are now up in arms about illegal immigration had ancestors who came here illegally. A few generations ago, it wasn't mexicans it was irish or italians, wop stands for without papers, etc.

The new collosus - on the statue of liberty - i know we can blame the French

give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teaming shores, send these the homeless tempest tossed to me, I life my lamp beside the golden door.

I don't understand why we should deprive these people the rights that we have.

We don't deprive them of anything, as long as they enter this country legally. What I don't understand is why do you believe that we should just let them in just because they don't like their country. Why don't they try to improve their own country rather than go somewhere else? I personally consider a person or persons who, in order to give themselves and their families a better life, breaks the laws of border crossing a selfish person or persons because they do not care of those who stay behind cause crossing will not fix their problem back home.

The only reason the majority of us have the "American entitlements" we enjoy is because we were born in this country! It's not like most of us did anything to be given these rights, we just were conceived in the right uterus at the right time in the right place!

And what makes you think we have't done anything? What about all those people who work and pay taxes? What about those who open shops and provide services? What about those who become fire fighters, police officers, soldiers, doctors, nurses, who risk their lives for others? Not to mention that the law gives them the right simply because they were born here and did not have to earn it, do you believe that law should be changed?

Tova: What have you done to secure these rights for anyone? What blood have you let to be given these rights?/quote] You do not have the right to question Tova in that sense. It is not up to you to decide who has rights and who doesn't (thank God). Those are unfair questions and you should take them back. really don't expect anyone to truly understand the situation until they see it from the other point of view. Until you've spent time among illegal immigrants, seen their efforts to enter this country (for their children's sake), I really can't expect you to see it the way I do.

So you believe you are the only person in the world who has spent time with them? What world do you live in, I have spent plenty of time with them and it does not change the fact that not liking the lifestyle of you country is not an excuse to break the law. I can understand that becoming a legal resident may not be easy but just imagen if every Mexican, Cuban, Chinese, Iraqi, Domincan, etc., had the ability to come to the USA and become a legal citizen over night? I mean if you wanna talk simple than over night is just about as simple as it can get. That would be insane, talk about being overpopulated.

Gotta break with you here 100% man.

And I say this as someone who has spent plenty of time with both legal and illegal immigrants, as well as someone who has actually seen it from the real other side: outside the country watching people bust their balls to find a way to illegally mooch off the US government.

I don't disagree that something needs to be done to immigration law. But at the same time, in a country of finite resources (including housing, jobs, etc.) I can't support a proposition to take those resources from those who were born here and are toiling away here and give it to someone else who happened to jump the border.

It's not like most of us did anything to be given these rights, we just were conceived in the right uterus at the right time in the right place! Why should we deny others because they didn't have the benefits of an American uterus to give birth to them?

So now you would damn us all because we were born in the US? That seems ridiculous. Because I know you like I do, let me use an example.

You (and I) have received countless blessings in you life because you were born in a Mormon uterus. Your faith was handed to you on a silver platter from the moment you were born. Now, that doesn't mean you haven't worked to make that faith your own, because I know you have. But you were born into it in the first place, just like you were born into America. I mean, what next? Following this line of logic, you would advocate stealing money from wealthy families, since many of them were just born into it.

What have you done to secure these rights for anyone? What blood have you let to be given these rights?

Heh. I ask you the same questions. What have you done?

I really don't expect anyone to truly understand the situation until they see it from the other point of view. Until you've spent time among illegal immigrants, seen their efforts to enter this country (for their children's sake), I really can't expect you to see it the way I do.

Careful there. Don't assume. You know what happens. I bet you there are many here who have spent more time than you among illegal immigrants who would still disagree with ya.

Honestly, if many of these people would expend the time and energy they do in getting into the US illegally on working to improve their own countries, perhaps the world would be a better place. There is a reason the LDS Church's perpetual education fund isn't to help people move to the US. It is to help them improve their own lives in the country of their birth, building stronger leaders and communities there, rather than having them come running to the arms of the US.

Why should we deny others because they didn't have the benefits of an American uterus to give birth to them?Tova: What have you done to secure these rights for anyone? What blood have you let to be given these rights?

Deny them? We're not denying them ANYTHING. Their own countries are doing that. If they want what we have...work for it, earn it, CHANGE things.

As for what I have given....let me see. I was born American. And that's good enough. But I can do even better. I served 4 years in the US Air Force. My husband fought in Desert Storm. I PAY TAXES. I vote. I OBEY THE FRIGGIN LAW.

The men in my family have been involved in, maimed or killed, in every war this country has had since the Civil war.

Is that good enough for you? Not that it matters. I am an American by birth, I do not BECAUSE OF MY BIRTH owe any other country's citizens ANYTHING.

That being said I don't believe in breaking the law but I wonder how many of the citizens who are now up in arms about illegal immigration had ancestors who came here illegally. A few generations ago, it wasn't mexicans it was irish or italians, wop stands for without papers, etc.

Sorry Mama...the people you reference were brought here legally. They made the journey and even the gov gave some of them land...100 acres and a mule to help settle this country.

Big difference.

Sorry Mama...the people you reference were brought here legally. They made the journey and even the gov gave some of them land...100 acres and a mule to help settle this country. Big difference.

Some were illegal.  The immigration problem was not always just Mexican and latin America.  However a great many were legal.  Still, the reference to WOP is correct.  WOP = Without Papers.  I.e. Illegal.